25 rounds of Federal LE132 9 pellet 00 buckshot that fires at 1125 FPS "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left." Description: Benelli M1014 Limited Edition Midnight Bronze 12ga 3in Semi Automatic Shotgun - 18.5in - Benelli's M4 Tactical is a unique, Auto Regulating Gas Operated (A.R.G.O) semi-auto shotgun, upon which the U.S. Marine Corps depend. Yesterday I went to my first 3gun match. However definitive that plot may look the bar graph below, illustrating total failures per box for each of the 20 boxes of ammunition, may indicate a reason. I may trade for a generation 3 SPX or sell it. Man alive, this test is way so very bogus and its conclusions are totally invalid! I have a tendency to plant my feet almost one behind the other when facing target, and I don’t lean forward. From the shooting position it wasn’t as noticeable. I apologize that your shotgun did not win. A detailed review of the Benelli M4 12 gauge combat shotgun or M1014. I and had a significant personal interest in seeing that his shotgun won. Plus the actions are two different beasts all together, Mossberg action is semi- smooth, Fn’s action is glass- like silky smooth like a Beretta M9. I've always liked/wanted the Benelli but would have preferred the options that you just can't seem to come by: collapsing stock and extended mag tube (but that one is a lot easier. I’ll try to remember to update this thread with what I find. In contrast, the Mossberg has no way to adjust its gas system for different ammunition. I got mine covered in what seemed like cosmoline without the smell. Maybe sometime in the future gun companies who are interested in improving their product will perform similar tests with several hundred of their own guns, instead of waiting for an unhappy customer base to demand action. Unfortunately as far as I can tell my test was the first of its kind to actually examine the reliability of these shotguns, so the only method we have to validate the results is word of mouth. Indeed, both shotguns completed the 500 rounds successfully and continued functioning properly. If you added a mag extension or full-length tube, the M4 would hold 9. The Beretta Xplor A400 is another, albeit field type, super shot gun that’s had zero failures for me in hunting and with clays. Such a statement cannot come across as being anything other than biased.” – Lance Jacobs, “Every 930 SPX I’ve fired and every 930 SPX owner I’ve talked to has said that their shotgun works all the time every time. Enjoyed article, thanks. If only gun magazines did tests this thoroughly…. “Every 930 SPX I’ve fired and every 930 SPX owner I’ve talked to has said that their shotgun works all the time every time. “we performed a control test study where we suspect the Winchester ammo had an issue, but didn’t retry with another batch… but resulting data won’t be skewed” Nice controlled study! Any production gun will have problems, my friends Benelli M4 has had cycling issues too. I am curious if the number of malfunctions will drop as these guns get broken in. A Welch two sample T-Test confirmed that the two distributions were statistically similar. And I admit the writing could have been better, this was my first attempt at a “technical paper” approach and will try to do better in the future. Turn around time was less than 3 weeks. Is that when a chicken gets jammed in the action? This went on for about half the day. Thank you. I hope I have adequately addressed your concern. The Benelli M4 will usually feed anything you put in it and works no matter how much sand mud or grime is covering the shotgun. We used two different brands: Remington #8 shot 1 ⅛ oz. Great test guys . I have shot numerous rounds of both trap and sporting clays with my FN SLP Mk 1 using very light target ammo, and it functions 100% perfectly, AS LONG AS I HAVE THE LIGHT LOADS CYLINDER INSTALLED! Enjoyed the comparison – got a 930 for 3 gun had some issues with QC initially but worked through them and now have a very nice and inexpensive gun that keeps up with the high dollar guns. Beretta 1301 Tactical The M4 is cool, never handled the FN, though. A randomly chosen FNH SLP Mk. I prefer the FNH gun, but the 930 is good if you have a well made one. I, we installed the “light” (red) gas piston and I verified that it was installed on the firing line in the morning. Wall mart value pack garbage all the way to 3″ magnum rounds all on the light piston. I does indeed come with two gas pistons and the manual does say that light loads will properly cycle with the “light” piston installed. Atlantic Firearms offers a wide selection Tactical Shotguns for Sporting , Home Defense and Hunting applications . In the course of our work, we logged other performance results to further determine which shotgun best suits 3-gun competition. While they were disassembled we referred to the manuals for each shotgun to ensure that they were properly configured for the testing to come. I or a Mossberg 930 SPX, would experience mechanical difficulties to determine which was better suited for 3-gun competitions. The extent of my experience with autoloading SGs is the 11-87 which I've found to be finicky about ammo, and starts to have problems with a little dirt in the action. Hits and misses were recorded by an observer, as well as any mechanical malfunctions. The night prior to the test we fully disassembled both shotguns and gave them a thorough cleaning. The factory grip on the Benelli is more comfortable, but I find the safety easier to manipulate on the SLP (probably because the grip on the Benelli is relatively thicker and requires shifting to go from fire to safe). In addition, because the failures are present in multiple bars it would seem to indicate that the user was not a factor in increasing failures. I despite not being mentioned in the write-up.]. -M4 has 18.5" barrel and SLP has 18" barrel -FN has a better rail than the M4 does, if you want optics. Regarding your new remarks, I do have an issue with one part of your follow up. Like a shotgun is supposed to do. Good luck and happy testing One at a time, each shooter would be presented with a target thrown by the assistant. I never had any jams or failures firing any of the 105 rounds. I know the M4 is an excellent shotgun and I will be getting one at a later date. Another word, you just forgot to mention that you had the correct piston after all. I went to my local gunsmith and he refused to even look at it, telling me that he’d worked on one twice for a previous customer and then still had to send it back to FN for a replacement. Nice job on setting up the test. I currently use an M1S90 with a 28" barrel for hunting quail, chukar, and waterfowl. Your comments that I have quoted below are pure hearsay, with no real facts or data to back them up. As far as i am concerned the SLP cannot touch these two shotguns and for near the same price as a SLP, you can get a M2 Tactical. It is possible that it will improve once “broken in” however, I am not a fan of breaking in guns as defensive firearms should work properly right out of the box. Sometimes it runs flawlessly just to drive me nuts. I work in a gun store and have had so many complaints about the 930 SPX and mossbergs customer service that we no longer carry them. The remarks that I am referring to are quoted at the very end of this post. As I said, a lot of effort went into making this test as fair as possible. ……. Shooters and ammunition types were rotated every 25 rounds as well, meaning each set of 25 rounds presented a unique combination of shooter, firearm, and ammunition type. Written by Nicholas Leghorn, Benjamin Parmalee, Nathan Barndt, Frank E., Craig Boyd, Nicholas Rose. About AR15.COM. Brilliant, Mr. Jacobs, you beat me to it. Surprising to see that the FN, which is supposed to be a military grade weapon, do so poorly. The 4 round capacity is mag-tube only and with 3" shells. I had to move the ghost sight adj as far right as it would go. According to conventional wisdom, the number of rounds fired and the abuse the firearm has received since its last cleaning is the principal factor which increases the probability of malfunctions in semi-automatic firearms. But what can you say the Mossberg really is a get what you pay for gun. Shotgun targets are typically rigged to move or react in some manner, whether it’s spinning such as with the Texas Star or flying like a clay pigeon. There is no doubt in my mind now that there must have been something wrong with the FN tested. The variability in the reliability of the shotguns may be indicative of a quality control issue on FNH USA’s part, but further testing will be required to make any kind of a definitive answer. Try telling me that every customer of Mossberg is happy with their crooked and short site post. I find these comments to be gratuitous in nature. Throughout the break in time I experienced plenty of FTE (failure to eject) and FTF (failure to feed). He would fire at each target. Clearly your own tests showed problems with the 930 SPX. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Benelli M2 Tactical vs FN SLP. This is my first post, I have a Supernova and I just bought a FNH SLP. So this whole test was very poorly implemented, without proper research being done by this staff. - It cost less than the Benelli M4. To make sure both shotguns received the same amount of wear, the ammunition was divided evenly, 250 rounds of each brand being fired through each gun, alternating brands every 25 rounds with both shotguns firing the same brand at the same time. I does indeed come with two gas pistons and the manual does say that light loads will properly cycle with the “light” piston installed. It has been very reliable with all loads. See my remarks in my post. “Smoothness” was determined on a subjective basis before the test on a scale of 1-6, 1 being equivalent to a well-polished and oiled 1911 pistol’s slide, 6 being equivalent to an AK-47 that has significant rust and is hard to open. ARCHIVED; Armory » Shotguns. MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Not for anything. If I could get the owners of both the M4 and the FN SLP please give me your thoughts of both weapons? These remarks now give the appearance of bias on your part. The FNH has two pistons to select from and was supplied with an one extra choke tube. But for gas autoloaders Beretta simply makes the best. During the match, I experienced a lot of FTE and FTF malfunctions. And as I said earlier, my FN SLP Mk I runs flawless, much better than your Mossberg 930 SPX performed in this test. We designed this experiment to determine if any malfunctions occurred in any of the shotguns and to document when they happened. These details should have most definitely been included in the article, and were a significant omission to make in writing the review. I do evetrthing from three gun to sporting clays and turkey hunting with my FN and have had zero problems. Mesa Tactical’s innovative, rugged and reliable tactical equipment is the choice for law enforcement, military and the public to meet real world duty and personal protection requirements. If you speak to any of the other authors involved (listed on the report) they will independently verify my statement. I dont care how your ” test” results turned out. The results of this test are so very surprising because the test itself was invalid. What this article says to me is the Mossberg can reliably compete with the higher priced shotguns but in all fairness to both shotguns high power loads should have been used. With production shotguns where thousands of units are produced, a sample population of dozens or even hundreds of shotguns would be required to get within a 95% confidence interval for the results. The FN SLP is based on the same action as the Winchester Super X2, which is a proven design (and I have both a FN SLP and a Winchester SX2). The FNH SLP Mk. So, for many years now I've been using 870s. I owners who have returned their shotguns due to reliability issues. I understand the limitations and the amount of work involved setting up the test. So then I started looking into the Benelli M2's. The other subjective and qualitative test, the survey, showed a marked preference for the Mossberg 930 SPX with 100 percent of the respondents preferring it in terms of its sights, weight, balance, and perceived recoil. Entirely possible. I owners who have returned their shotguns due to reliability issues.”. The build quality alone is tangible between the two guns which is a reflection of the way FN builds guns vs Mossberg- Mossberg makes decent stuff at a solid price FN makes top quality fire arms to include the SLP…get it straight wingnuts. Can someone tell me the advantages of each? get educated .and if it still doesn’t wanna survive get a pump. The first 10 boxes of ammunition, however, seem to negate that theory as the failures are persistent and almost evenly distributed. Low cost to buy Benelli M4 Vs Fn Slp Tactical And Best Black Rifle Coffee Blend D This test was initiated with two specific goals. Benelli M4 has excellent aftermarket support for a tactical configuration, but it's heavy and expensive. I malfunctioned more often than a randomly chosen Mossberg 930 SPX. For hunting shotguns I'll go with Benelli all day, every day. Finally: The SLP in the test was ‘set-up’ for failure. I don't know much about the Benelli M4, but if it's good enough for the USMC (and LAPD for that matter) it's GTG too. Perhaps another test point would be to have a gunsmith examine the internal components for wear and fatigue after the test. The SLP It's light Less cost prohibiting Holds two extra rounds and is 922r compliant Holds 9 if you ghost one the M4 holds seven while ghosting one. Because the failures alternate, with some bars having no failures and some bars having failures, it seems to indicate that the ammunition was to blame and not the shotgun as the malfunctions were exclusive to the Winchester ammunition. A gun may perform great, yet show unfavorable wear which would limit its long-term reliability. When I posted this same result at ar15.com your reaction was the same as many there: disbelief and the desire to defend your chosen shotgun. I am trying to decide between a Benelli M2 Tactical and the FN SLP Mark I with the 22" barrel. First, to determine if a modern semi-automatic shotgun would be subjected to enough wear (defined as fowling and residue produced as a byproduct of the firing of the firearm) during the course of a typical 3-gun competition to cause a malfunction. This survey was not disclosed beforehand and the owners of the shotguns in question were not allowed to participate. For those TL;DR folks: my FN SLP MK1 malfunctions were being caused by my poor/incorrect stance. My Saiga 12 has been totally reliable and shoots dead on. Testing was conducted using one lightly used shotgun (<200 rounds) of each model. This is my kind of review. It is hard to beat the lack of felt recoil of Benelli's inertia driven system and it does not get dirty as fast. Finally, I thought this was a stress test, half of the 930x supporter replies have a “better bang for the buck” sounding response(after factory repairs). Before shipping the barrel I asked two friends on separate occassions to look down the barrel from the front sight to rear and tell me if they noticed anything. The flaw is that only one shotgun of each model was used, which means we did not have a proper sample size on which to base the analysis. The FNH SLP shoots faster, holds more ammo and costs about $600 less then the revered Benelli. The number and frequency seemed incredibly high compared to what I’ve seen with older semi shotguns. However, with some help from TTAG I’m sure we can work out a revenge match. I previously owned the Mossberg 930 SPX and liked it.It was light and FAST! Following the completion of testing a survey was taken of the participants to determine which shotgun they preferred. If yours don’t . - If you are used to shooting trap and skeet. Good read, some people are easly offended, all that was said ,if I read this right , is that a random Mossberg 930 run better then a random FN SPL, next time it could go the other way,so relax Francis. Good luck on the new testing and I hope your new FN performs like mine does. All authors are members of AwfulShootingSquad.com, The authors of this paper conducted a 500 round stress test to determine if either of two semi-automatic shotguns, an FNH SLP Mk. Thanks for the interesting article, I’m currently considering the two models tested and appreciate the information you provided. I would have liked to see a Saiga and an M4 in the mix too. Often the 930 had shell retention issues in the mag tube. As to my comments, I was not trying to “bash” the SLP, I was simply reiterating some of the comments I’ve heard from other SPX owners. Love the guns – terrible service. Thinking about an FN or Benelli. The action’s operation may affect the speed of the shooter, especially if malfunctions must be cleared or the action opened to abandon the weapon on a stage of competition. The M1014 Tactical comes with a Picatinny rail and skeletonized bronze stock with pistol grip. My FN SLP Mk 1 has been perfect from the start. And have someone clean it for you because obviously you suck at it. The front sight isn’t slanted as some were on SPX’s, the rail & rear sight are secure. Interesting results. However, we did not have the time, the money or the shotguns to use a sample that large. I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and it ate everything I had with zero malfunctions. SLP all the way! OK, points well taken, and I will obviously retract my earlier remarks in light of all of this additional information being provided. Data analysis and figure generation was performed using the statistical program R (r-project.org). I shoot trap and skeet with a Benelli Cordoba. I have seen more than one of each model in operation and the FN has Never sent a competitor off course due to malfunction. Three years after this was written and it’s still a very relevant and well executed article. I’ve never tried these specific loads myself with my SLP, as I generally shoot Federal and Estate target ammo that I get from places like Sportsman’s Warehouse, Dick’s Sporting Goods, and a local chain called BiMart that we have here in Oregon. At the end of the test we both agreed that it had been fair, and that each of us had done everything in our power to make our shotguns run reliably. I have a Mossberg, and other brands of shotgun but only shoot my FNH. Firearms reliability on the civilian market hasn’t been well tested. While semi-automatic shotguns provide a tangible benefit in terms of decreased cycling time (the time it takes to remove the spent cartridge from the gun and load a new cartridge into the chamber), the mechanisms which enable that semi-automatic operation are susceptible to failure. This comparison is garbage. Every 930 SPX I’ve fired and every 930 SPX owner I’ve talked to has said that their shotgun works all the time every time. both the FNH-SPL and Bennelli M4 are great shotguns. And no I dont own any of the three mentioned shotguns. I wanted to update my first comment to correct the remark I made about my front sight not being canted. But in all honesty the Mossberg feels and is alot more budget minded. http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/SHOT1.jpg. Nick leghorn- So whats the good word on your new FN to test? At the end of the test we both agreed that it had been fair, and that each of us had done everything in our power to make our shotguns run reliably. This subjective test was repeated again at the end of the course of fire. And then tell me they are happy waiting for 3 months for a new barrel. A number of the 930s were shipped with canted front sights. I as have defended it. I’m sold on Mossberg. And that then created these invalid test results. The FNH SLP Mk. 5 rounds of Federal Low recoil 9 pellet 00 buckshot that fires at 1140 FPS Frankly I was unimpressed when I shot a friend's 930 SPX. The Benelli has more industry support and is much more widely known but I'd bet if you combine all of the FN, Browning and Winchester shotguns based on the SLP's action there have been as many or more sold than the Benelli. I put over 300- rounds through mine today with nary a hick-up and that’s without a cleaning from last weekends action pistol work– I probably only have 1000 rds thru the gun as I just picked it up a few months ago but I have yet to experience a malfunction of any sort- all on the light piston as well. After checking front to rear sight alignment by sighting from the front sight towards the rear sight it was very noticeable that my front sight was canted badly to the left. Grammar Nazi alert! There is no need to learn how to shoot a pistol grip. Sounds to me like someone has a an agenda promoting Mossberg. FN is giving us another to test shortly, we’ll see if that has an issue as well. Shame on you guys for doing such a slipshod effort here, and not doing your homework. The second metric recorded and analyzed was how many clay pigeons were hit per box of ammunition. Both immediately commented the front sight was canted badly to the left. check out the. Listen to the Fn owners defending the SLP on it’s stand out performance, which do you think is really superior? The first such side experiment investigated whether or not the “smoothness” of the action degraded as the shotgun was fired. 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